#DenounceNIO

When extremists of a particular group commit acts of violence and terror we look towards the moderates of that group to denounce their tactics. It is now time people for animal rights to openly denounce Negotiation is Over especially for their post, Bringing the War to the Student Body – The Soft-Bellied Target of the Vivisection Complex.

So far I have yet to see ANY such post anywhere. Vegans naturally won’t blog about it because it’s not about detoxes or getting skinny but so far the only postings have been on science blogs:

Speaking of Research: A New Low at NIO: extremists threaten students

Adventures in Ethics and Science: On the targeting of undergraduates by animal rights extremists (and the dangers of victim-blaming).

Respectful Insolence: Animal rights terrorists target students as the soft underbelly of the vivisection movement

Pharyngula: Students are “soft-bellied targets”

It is time to stand with science and reason for the animals for which we advocate. Tactics like these are despicable and should not go unchallenged especially when our cause is so tarnished by these extremists.

Twitter #DenounceNIO

24 comments to #DenounceNIO

  • I am disgusted by this kind of cultish “This is WAR!” tactic and I know that others in the vegan world are, too, Dave. It’s quite possible that others – like me – didn’t know about this post or even this organization. For what it’s worth, I have maintained a blog since 2008 and I have never written about “detoxes or getting skinny” and neither do any of the vegan blogs I follow. I may write about this, though. Thanks for sharing the information.

  • Marla,

    If you’ve been blogging since 2008 and this is the first you’ve heard of NIO then I’m afraid you just made my point.

    I’m glad that you too feel outraged by such tactics of intimidation this group espouses. I hope you do join me in publicly denouncing these thugs.

    Thanks for the comment.

  • NIO,HAS NO MODERATES!!!!!! NOR DOES IT HAVE ANY USE FOR THEM!!!!!!! NOTHING IS BEING DONE TO PROTECT THESE ANIMALS.RESEARCH IS ABOUT MONEY AND NOTHING ELSE!IT IS CUT THROAT AND IT IS DISHONEST AND IT IS INHUMANE. “KNOWLEDGE” IS INFINITE AND HUMAN BEINGS WILL NEVER STOP PURSUING IT. THINGS ARE GOING ON IN LABS THAT WE COULDEN”T EVEN FATHOM AND I BET ANIMALS AREN”T THE ONLY THINGS BEING TESTED ON.SCIENTISTS ARE SIMPLY USING ANIMALS TO TRY AND FIGURE OUT HOW THE HUMAN SYSTEM WORKS, THEY OPENLY ADMIT THAT ANIMALS AND HUMANS ARE NOT THE SAME. SO THEY USE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS IN THE HOPES THAT THEY CAN FILL IN THE BLANKS EVENTUALLY. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF ANIMALS DIE THEIR LIVES SPENT IN CONSTANT FEAR AND CONSTANT PAIN THEY HAVE LIVED FOR WHAT????? ANIMALS ARE NOT OURS TO POSSESS. AND THEY CERTAINLY AREN”T OURS TO MUTILATE.WE ARE NOT MEANT TO LIVE FOREVER. WE HAVE DISEASES BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE HAVE INDUSTRIALIZED.THE EARTH HAS ITS OWN WAY OF CLEANSING.THE ANIMALS ARE NOT GOING TO BE SAVED….. UNLESS THEY ARE SAVED!!!!!!!

  • anonymous

    I am in NIO and nobody threatened that student Alene, with anything but publishing an article about her. Freedom of speech is our right. We do not torture animals like you vivisectors do. Who is the terrorist here? I guess if you are a sociopathic vivisector, its easy to lie. It worries me a lot that someone could do cruel animal experiments on and still sleep at night. Most vivisectors are sociopaths so its no problem for them. You really should see a psychiatrist for this disease. How many animals have you tortured and killed today?

  • David Trelawny

    There is no excuse for animal abuse. You are animal abusers, plain and simple.

  • David Trelawny

    I am proud to say I am in the group NIO. That student Alene was not threatened with anything but for her story to be published. But what can you expect from vivisectors? They torture animals. Why wouldnt they lie? Most sociopaths are perfect liars. I am willing to bet most vivisectors are sociopaths and need psychiatric help. Your research in invalid. Animals do not react like humans do. I saw a study the other day whereby rats were tested to see if they like ejaculating. You people are a bunch of sick perverts

  • Really? I think it’s because I just don’t seek out this sort of thing but you could be right. NIO does not present a new mentality, really, in the AR movement, just a new name to me. There were others before and there will be others after them.

    Chest-beating, platitude shrieking, and posturing is nothing new, I’m afraid, in the fringes of any social justice movement. Although I’ve been a much more confrontational activist in my past, I was never one who supported thuggish tactics. Although I don’t know NIO, I have never aligned myself with the others that have come and gone over the years. Now that I see their name, though, I do think I remember them from a couple of years back getting into it with Gary Francione because he denounced their tactics. Dave, part of my seeming to “ignore” these groups might really be that I’m just into a whole different mentality and approach that does not include them. I imagine this is true of others as well.

    • If by “don’t seek out this sort of thing” you mean animal rights then there you go. Just because there was, were and will be doesn’t mean we shouldn’t speak out against it any less than we do about harming animals for the same excuse. Silence is the voice of complicity.

      The “mentality and approach” vegans espouse blinds them to the actual issues that involve justice for animals. This is another reason I maintain veganism has little to do with ethical issues. It has relegated itself to how to be a skinny bitch or where to find the bag of skittles with the sku number that indicates it came from a certain factory that doesn’t use bone char sugar.

      When thugs like these start terrorizing the public all the vegan cupcakes in the world isn’t gonna endear people to the plight of animals when we stand idly by. It’s hard to understand how a community who otherwise makes grand claims to compassion can be so dismissive when fellow humans become targets especially from groups within our own ranks. Oh wait, that’s right, vegans have nothing to do with animal rights.

  • Al

    Why don’t you write one, Dave? (I’m serious.)

    I agree with you that these tactics are ridiculous and counter-productive, of course, and I agree that AR bloggers need to come out against them in the same way that they need to come out against orgs like PETA (for many of the same reasons). That said, I don’t think it needs to be top on the list of things for rational AR activists to do. And I don’t think we should be expected to write refutations of every stupid thing every AR activist does.

    That said, there are plenty of posts out there that reject the tactics of NIO, ALF and others. Among them:

    http://unpopularveganessays.blogspot.com/2009/09/on-militant-direct-action.html
    http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/on-violence/
    http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/a-commentary-on-violence/
    http://weotheranimals.blogspot.com/2009/08/burning-ark-wont-solve-problem.html
    http://my-face-is-on-fire.blogspot.com/2009/08/using-violence-to-stop-violence.html

    I would not blame these (and other) blog authors for not wanting to write a new post about violence every time NIO posts something that portrays violence as a good thing.

    And I’m in the same boat as Marla, none of the vegan blogs I read ever write about detoxes or getting skinny. What the hell kind of vegan blogs do you read? 🙂

    Speaking of blogs of substance, do you know what happened to Paloveganology? I miss it so.

    • Hello Al,

      Why don’t I write a what?

      This isn’t a general hand-waving denouncement of violence but a specific reaction to a new action. The feeds blew up yesterday over this. I have yet to read a single vegan or AR blog that spent a modicum of effort to mention it. I bet I can find a dozen vegan cupcakes posts though.

      • Al

        Sorry, I meant why don’t you write a post denouncing NIO. I mean, sure, this one sort of counts. But I mean one that really digs in and explores the situation.

        And by the way, I am shocked to learn that you are a vivisector now. A vivesector for animal rights, no less!

        • Ahh, well this post came about specifically to denounce NIO. I’ve been so busy that I haven’t had time for Pythagorean Crank but I made a few minutes during lunch to bang this out. It’s not the most comprehensive post I know but I was so compelled to take a stand. I have over 100 PCrank drafts waiting for me on other subjects so this will be as much as I can write on this for now.

          It’s official enough, their trolls are descending as you can tell. Looks like I stand alone. How many other AR blogs do you see listed on their site?

          • Al

            I hear ya. Please don’t take my comment as a criticism, I just meant that I’m sure you could write a good in-depth criticism of this whole thing and I would enjoy reading it.

            And, of course, thank you for writing the post that you did. I do not follow NIO and I don’t make a habit of reading the science blogs you linked to (though I do thoroughly enjoy Pharyngula now and then), so your post let me know this situation was out there and I feel that I’m a better person for it.

          • Thanks Al, I’m glad you could find an appreciation for my call to action. Keep on rockin it!

  • Dave, I am an animal rights activist. You may think that there is no ethical component but I just don’t understand that view and I disagree. I am very careful about how I spend my time and the message I am sending the world. The people targeting vivisectors are certainly not the only ones doing activism. To your mind, at least how you expressed it in this post, vegans are either “skinny bitches” looking for Skittles or part of the NIO? I’m sorry, Dave, that is extreme, simplistic and unfair. I don’t stand idly by and I never have: I work on creating the sort of world I want to live in. So do my vegan friends. Whether or not you with your personal judgment deems it as worthwhile, Chicago VeganMania and events like that are excellent opportunities to reach out to omnivores. We had thousands come to our event, many of whom self-identified to our speakers as omnivores, and we were able to demystify veganism for them in a non-threatening way. That is far-reaching.

    What do you propose vegans do for the animals, Dave? Who made you the arbiter of what is worthwhile and what is not? It is easy to stand back, point fingers and condemn others as ridiculous: what is your winning approach? The fact is, we are diverse people with diverse interests and talents. I’d be interested to see you hold yourself to the hot seat and see what you come up with.

  • Nope, because I’m not going to be manipulated into anything. I also spend VERY little time on Twitter, have very few followers, and it wouldn’t be as productive as writing a post on my blog that would have better visibility. So, in the end, you may not approve but whatever. Also, I’d love to hear some of your creative solutions instead of all the bitterness, lashing out and finger pointing. Onward and upward!

  • Teresa

    Camille has a way with words that expresses all of our emotions very well. But all she said essentially was: “You know, someone is going to kick your ass some day!” That’s it. That’s all.

    You know what the last 3 days reminds me of? A bunch of kindergarteners sitting in a line playing the secret game. Its starts as one thing and ends as a totally irrelivant thing. Please tell me you people have more of a life than this.

  • OMG I’m laughing so hard I’m snorting!

    Not one of you is able to stay on subject. You bring something up, shamelessly write it backwards, make your own definitions of any word you choose, scare your own selves silly and then devise plans to survive. I mean seriously- you guys are scientists? When we talk about animal experimentation, you guys just rant. Do we want to shoot you with a gun if we had one. Who would we rescue from a burning building. We have poor grammar. You’re putting in a complaint with the FBI. Targeting a certain demographic means everyone run and hide. Lisa Grossman kant spall rite. Your science worked 50 yrs ago why look for progressive changes. You’ve Googled me and I’m part of an anti-Islamic fundie group. And on and on. I expect the responses to this will include weather reports, bellybutton fuzz, the philosophy of the inside of a ping pong ball and kites.

    And that’s because the only thing that’s fueling your, what, 86 hours straight of global blogging about NIO (thanks for that by the way) – is your use of one single word. Terrorists.

    The ONLY people who are giving any merit to you calling us terrorists is your own selves. I mean that- your postings would be laughed at by anyone who’s not you. What would you say when someone sane who has no beliefs in either side here asks the obvious questions about these new home grown terrorists that the mighty mighty you guys have found?
    Thousands have heard of these NIO people terrorists. Why are they just running around free?
    How long have they been out of prison?
    Shouldn’t you call and report you know where these NIO terrorists are?
    How many innocent people have the hurt?
    How many people have they killed?
    Where do they have their training camps?

    One of you guys said that inciting fear is terrorism. Well I’m pretty sure these same sane people would tell you that for a person to be a terrorist they have to hurt people. Without the element of hurting people, your definition could fit parenting or haunted houses. Of course we all know the answers to the questions above. Like I said, you’re scaring your own selves silly then devising a plan on how to survive.

    It’s a matter of fact when someone tells you that you’re seriously going to get your butt kicked one day. You’re awful people doing awful things. Just because you don’t like that someone who’s actually respected printed it in public, doesn’t change that. You guys are going to have to answer for all you’ve done and continue to do. It’s going to be in my lifetime so look for me to be saying I told you so whether said butt is covered in flames or ice cream.

    It’s not just wrong but a complete lie that we are terrorists. I may not be likeable and I might be rude and angry. But not terrorists. I do wield a mean Sharpie pen late at night while making protest signs. And I can find any dirt, location and background on anyone with skill. Not terrorism. But hey, good luck with your survival plan. I have no earthly idea on how your guys go on saying this without any scary answers to the above questions. I hope it’s contained to blogs or you have really humiliated yourselves. I know what you’re thinking, you don’t have to bother saying it- supercalafradulisticexpealadocious. I know.

    Well I’m off to finish our ideas and flyers targeting the FL DEP for the Paynes Prairie animals. And targeting UF for refusing to release public records. And targeting the current congressional session on cutting funding for animal experimentation. And targeting Alpha Genesis in SC. Hey! Maybe you should call FBI agents you told about the NIO terrorists and warn them that terrorists are coming for Alpha Genesis April 16th!

  • […] codify it. (and I know what’s next) For those who justify the characterizations you echoed I denounce. They don’t represent me. (and this is another difference with veganism) The same is often […]

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